Blog prompt and homework -- 2/5/2009. Read carefully, because the assignment has changed!
1. Before class on Monday: Engage in a blog discussion of "A Valediction Forbidding Mourning" by John Donne. How does Donne use figurative language, diction, and imagery to develop the themes in this poem? Resist the temptation to use the web as a crutch to aid in understanding -- instead, work the poem and THINK about it. Also, read chapter five on figurative language.
2. Due Wednesday: Write a two to three page analysis of Donne's use of figurative language in "A Valediction Forbidding Mourning." Be sure to read the section in your book on writing about poetry before attempting this. Use 12 point Times or Times New Roman and double-space your work.
3. Be prepared to dive back into your group discussions from today. You'll have approximately 20-30 minutes together before presenting your poem and analysis to the class.
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Should the two- to three-page analysis ("mini-essay," as it was called in class) be structured like an essay, with a thesis statement and whatnot?
Or can it be more of a run-through consideration and analysis, like a more formal version of some of the longer blog posts (the giant ones that really work the poem)?
You still want to make a definitive statement that serves as a thesis. Take a look at the sample essay in your book, and look over the guidelines provided in "Writing About Poetry."
Okay, first of all, it's a miracle that I'm the first to post AGAIN. and that " A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning". is beautiful and I loved it.
Okay, so what i personally gathered from the poem is that it has one central theme. this being the seperation between to people who love eachother. Donne's argument is that although they are far apart because their love is true, it shouldn't be a problem.
He uses several kinds of figurative language in order to accomplish this. The instance that is most obvious, in my opinion, is that of the compass. He describes a compass in the last three stanza's and it represents their relationship. He discusses how just like the spindles of the compass, the two of them will move simultaneously with eachother, never one without the other. Also that with the one arrow central in the middle, the other arrow, or person, is free to move around the first arrow in a perfect circle. this is a metaphor for the speakers ability to live a more perfect life because it is centered around the one that he loves.
there is also a fairly significant use of imagery and diction. In many ways they operate simultaneously allowing the poem to be tremendously powerful and effective. the word melt for instance creates some powerful imagery. Everyone knows what it looks like to see chocolate melt and dissintegrate. the dictionary definition is "to pass, dwindle or fade away". These people are not only fading into the background, but they are melting and dissapearing. Tear-floods and sigh-tempests i thought also created some powerful imagery. They both have references to storm and immediately envelope us in the stress or anxiety that one might feel when in a storm-like situation. they are not just tears or sighs but rather overly dramatic tempests and floods, making them seem all the more unecesary. And finally another piece of imagery that stood out to me was "like goldto airy thines beat." The gold is meant to represent the pure and rich nature of their relationship and that it will be stretched and thinned but never broken. this helps the reader to associate their relationship with something as pure and beautiful as gold-leaf. It helps them comprehend how the speaker must feel about his loved one.
And finally the diction. I really appreciated the alliteration in "care less, eyes, lips, and hands to miss." the letter "s" adds a tender feeling to the phrase which i'm sure was intentional. He also used the word center when describing the compass and the one that he loves. I thought center was very appropriate as opposed to middle,etc. the dictionary has several definitions for center 1: the source of an influence, action, force. and 2: a point, place, person, etc., upon which interest, emotion, etc., focuses. These I thought were extremely significant to the authors purpose and helped to convey the message of the woman being the "center" of the speakers life. And finally one of the words that stood out to me particularly was the word spheres. The word sphere in the dictionary also has many definitions, they're all round objects, divine, as well as the extent of a persons knowledge, interest, etc. I believe that the speaker used spheres in order to make their relationship more timeless.
Like Camden, I felt that the poem was a message from the speaker to his departed (or perhaps soon to depart) lover, assuring that their souls shall not stay far apart for long. I found this idea especially apparent in the final few stanzas of the poem, when the speaker uses the metaphor of feet to describe his relationship with his lover (his lover being "the fixed foot", around which he, "th' other foot", must "obliquely run"). I recognized the futility in attempting to separate what inevitably comes together, such as one's feet, and I thought that the use of the metaphor was an incredibly sweet affirmation of the speaker's devotion to his beloved. It matters not to him that, as the other foot, he shall forever remain in constant orbit about his adored, the fixed foot. Such a circle is justified by the lover, by her resilience - says the speaker at the poem's end, "Thy firmness makes my circle just/And makes me end, where I begun." The speaker's feelings for his lover defy fate, defy the limits of life, thus making an occurrence such as death merely "an expansion" rather than "a breach", one deserving not grief but celebration; death does not end their love but simply continues it, albeit in a new existence.
Aside from the idea I discussed above, what struck me about the poem as I read it was the diction the author used, the inclusion of such words as "sublunary" and "inter-assured" and "care less", the discussion of "the spheres" and their movement. It seemed to give the poem an unearthly, transcendent feel that seemed (to me) to speak volumes about the speaker's relationship with his lover. Theirs is not an ordinary romance, is not the love of "dull sublunary lovers". Unlike such lovers, who "cannot admit" absence, "whose soul is sense", they revel in absence, they reject convention. Their souls, although two in number, are one, and their love endures. The speaker's relationship with his lover makes any kind of mourning between them futile, for, although death may find them, their separation is but the briefest of separations - a fact the author solidifies through the metaphor of feet, through the metaphor of expansion, through the idea that the progression between life and death is "like gold to airy thinness beat".
My favorite stanza of the poem:
"But we by a love so much refined,
That ourselves know not what it is,
Inter-assured of the mind,
Care less, eyes, lips, and hands to miss."
Hari, what are the toads?
Or your interpretation :)
And Meiying, Fiona, Michelle?
Within the poem, “A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning”, the speaker is about to embark upon a long and lonesome journey, either geographically to another country or continent or metaphysically to heaven. However, an enbarkment upon this journey requires a farewell, a parting from the speaker’s most beloved. Thus, in “A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning”, the speaker assures his lover that although they will be physically apart, their souls are one and their love secure. Within the first stanza, the speaker utilizes the metaphor of “…virtuous men [passing] mildly away” to convince his lover to gently and without “…tear-floods, nor sigh-tempests” to allow him to depart. Just as virtuous men or (as the use of the word “laity” in line 8 indicates) those in the priesthood are happily released from their mortal cage of flesh to rise above and meet their savior, the speaker’s beloved must also allow the speaker to depart in a mild and peaceful atmosphere. The use of the word “melt” further underscores the speaker’s desire for a peaceful departure, one in which there is “no tear-floods, nor “sigh-tempests”. With a connotation of a gradual and seamless transition, the word “melt” indicates, in one word, the speaker’s desire for a mild and undramatic farewell. Thus, the comparison that Donne/the speaker makes is between lovers departing and a priest’s departure from his mortal body.
Within the next few stanzas, the speaker presents his reasons for a peaceful farewell: their love is so great that his departure is minor and insignificant. He compares their parting, the parting of true loves, to “trepidation of the spheres”. For although the movement and shifting of celestial spheres is far greater in magnitude than such earthly movements of tectonic plates, this “trepidation of spheres” is innocent and does no harm. Through this metaphor, the speaker assures his lover of the innocence of their parting. Although their parting may be great in distance, the magnitude of their love, like that of the movement of celestial spheres, prevents the departure from wreaking havoc or harm. It is only “dull sublunary lovers’ love” which “…cannot admit/absence” as such distance will “…remove/those things which elemented it” (13-16). Only imperfect lovers cannot bear to part, for their love is rooted and cemented by such physical proximity. But the speaker and his beloved, “…by a love so much refined/that [they themselves] know not what it is,” are secure and risk no such tear and upheaval of their love (17-18). Their souls are one, and when the speaker must depart, their love will endure not “a breach, but an expansion, like gold to airy thinness beat” (23-24). This simile is especially beautiful and poignant as it gives their love an added connotation through comparison to gold. Their love is golden, sparkling, and precious. Since it has already been elaborated on by both Hari and Camden, I won’t spend much time on the last few stanzas of the poem. Within the last bit of the poem, the speaker uses the metaphor of compasses and feet to further highlight their connected and never wavering love. For, if one foot roams, the other “…leans and hearkens after it,” “obliquely running”, stopping its chase only when the two souls are together again.
Lisa, I had trouble initially with this also, as I was reading the poem wrong, but the answer is blatantly stated within the poem. The first toad (just off the top of my head, so I may be wrong) is work.
In “A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning” the speaker is departing from his lover, for a journey and will eventually return. He wants her to understand that they will never truly be apart from one another, and that mourning this does no good, just “as virtuous men pass mildly away” their departure should as be guiltless as the dying men. This initial simile creates the mood for the rest of the poem. Just there after, the speaker says, “so let us melt, and make no noise,” meaning that they should detach and leave from one another without too many words. As well as that that there shall be “no tear-floods, nor sigh-tempests move”, or no mourning or uproar over their departure. Although the speaker has to leave, he doesn’t want to think of it as a break or a gap or “a breach” in their love, “but and expansion, like gold to airy thinness beat,” that their love will stretch like gold. This powerful simile allows the reader to see strength and passion for their love, and flexibility that they must endure for the benefit of the whole when reunited. The metaphor of the compass, I believe, is the most powerful metaphor within the poem. The speaker compares his lover’s soul to “the fixed foot” of a compass, as it is always in place while he roams around. Later Donne personifies the compass more by saying when one “foot” leaves, the other “leans, and hearkens after it” as though it listens and searches for the other, giving them complex human qualities that we yearn for as well. Also, he speaks of how the leaning foot, “grows erect, as that comes home,” as though there is a magnetic bond between them. Then finally at the end, Donne finishes the metaphor with “thy firmness my circle just, and makes me end, where I begun,” this beautifully ends the journey of the foot and the compass, because the speaker’s lover, is the “fixed foot”, she securely anchored to allows him to make an entire revolution. Thus by the end of his journey (or the lap of the compass), he will be back to where he had started with his lover, like his journey had come full circle, and that they will be together again. And the image created by this metaphor is so compelling that it allows the reader to fully gage the depth and passion of their relationship and their preparation for the journey that is to come and separate them.
Now I'm really happy for this blog to help sort out what I think...
Man, Donne uses a whole lot of diction. And syntax to boot. Whole lot of syntax. This is most obvious, and "A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning" is no exception.
(Please take me seriously)
Ok. So. I think a key to unpacking this poem correctly would be to first determine whether the speaker is dying, or departing on a long journey.
Let's start with the title.
"A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning"
I will focus on "Valediction" and "Mourning" for now. A Valediction is a sort of goodbye speech. Hence the origin of the word Valedictorian. (Don't worry, these people use a ton of diction too.) If this is a farewell, One could come to two general conclusions: death, or a departure, maybe a journey. If this Valediction is forbidding "Mourning", I initially thought the speaker was dying, given the word's implications. But I now believe the speaker is using death as a method of comparison. I developed my opinion from the actual poem, so I say we move on to the poem itself.
The speaker, in the opening line, seems to compare his departure to death, in order to urge the lover to not cry, or lament his absence. The general sense I gathered from this statement is one of sacred beauty: If one is to cry over the loss, it could never capture the love that exists, only do it a terrible injustice. Also, in the last three stanzas, the speaker compares the love they share to the feet of a compass, (I originally thought the speaker was mentioning navigational compasses, but the questions quickly relieved me of my terribly misinformed condition.) which wonderfully showcased the unity of their souls, and their ability to overcome mere losses of the "...eyes, lips, and hands...". The phrase "And it grows erect, as that comes home." seems to imply an eventual reunification, but this still could mean a few things. It could mean they will reunite in heaven, which might not be too far of a stretch, given the religious undertones implicit in the words "Soul", and "Laity", or it could mean a reunion after the speakers journey. At this point, my gut decision is the speaker is departing on a trip. I just feel the metaphor fits a little more snugly, especially the phrase "Yet when the other far doth roam,/ It leans, hearkens after it.." Hopefully this knowledge will aid in my interpretation of the poem
Donne is telling his lover that he has to depart, but she shouldn’t feel sad about it, because his departure will only make their love stronger. In the first stanza, he looks about virtuous men who pass on to the next life. They go, “mildly away, and whisper to their souls to go”. I think he is telling her that is how she should react to his leaving. Instead of clasping at his coattails and crying, there should be some sort of quite noble dignity. He doesn’t want her to cry or get upset at their parting, “so let us melt, and make no noise, no tear-floods, nor sign-tempest move”. Another comparison is made with, “dull sublunary lovers”. Their love is much stronger than the dull lovers’, because they don’t need to be constantly with each other, “absence, because it doth remove”. The lovers’ have connected their eyes, lips, and hands through their souls, “Care less, eyes, lips, and hands”. Donne uses interesting diction by using “Care less” instead of “careless”. He tries to create double means and emphasize the word.
The distance between his lover and he is nothing, “our two souls therefore, which are one, though I must go, endure not yet, a breach but an expansion.” An expansion is used to symbolize that the distance between their two souls will only “expand” their love. It is not a breach to tear their love down and creates doubts. He then mentions a compass, “and though it in the center sit, yet when the other far doth roam, it leans”. I didn’t really understand this part. Their love or two souls are compass needles to guide them toward each other. No distance can seem to long, because their souls are together and forever will remain that way.
First off I would like to say that I am so sorry Mr. Duncan about your injury and I hope you get well soon! Who knows… maybe it will be a past Health Careers student that will help you!
I love this poem. It makes me sad, but it is so powerful and eloquently written that it makes me happy too. There are three metaphors that the speaker uses to explain what he means. He begins by talking about the separation at death between two people in love. Then the speaker talks about earthquakes and how when an earthquake happens it’s “innocent,” (12). When I read this I think that the speaker is saying that when our ground shakes and it’s an earthquake, then we really have nothing to blame, but the separation between these two in love could have been prevented, or at least has a cause and a blame. The third metaphor is of a compass and how when one part wanders away, the rest comes to follow.
The vivid use of diction the speaker uses is apparent on the first line: “As virtuous men pass mildly away,” (1). “Virtuous,” and “mildly,” give it a sense of calm, that while the death may be sad, it is not unjust. The second stanza uses the word “melt” to describe the mourning period. “So let us melt, and make no noise,” (5). While this stanza isn’t my favorite, this line is my favorite in the whole poem; it offers the perfect imagery to convey the speaker’s meaning. To me, “melt” is the perfect description for what someone would go through after losing the one they loved. The section “Though I must go, endure not yet / A breach, but an expansion,” (22-23), is the speaker telling the one left behind to make the best of it and improve their life (“expansion”) rather than dwell on it and let it betray all they had (“breach”).
I think this poem is expressing how hard it is to be separated from the one you love. I think that it describe the pain with the death metaphor, how unfair it may be with the earthquake reference, and with the compass metaphor it means that even when separate, you will always be together.
Two hours ago from this moment, Fiona came and perfectly said everything that I was going to say.
The speaker is on a journey to eventually return, there are three similes that compare the temporary parting of true lovers to the mild passing of virtuous men from life (“as”), to the malleability of gold beaten into gold leaf (“like”), and to the connected separation of the legs of a drawing compass (“as”).
If she had not done that, my post would have looked a lot like hers, just less elegantly and not as smoothly.
But she did, so I’ll change my plans and address a few other things.
In addition to these three similes, the speaker uses a metaphor to compare his parting [from his partner] to “trepidation of the spheres.”
In separation from his loved one, he says “So let us melt, and make no noise / No tear-floods, nor sigh-tempests move.” This metaphor is then extended a couple lines later: such “Moving of th’ earth brings harms and fears,” so much that the afflicted “Men reckon what it did and meant.”
But their own parting is of a different nature, the speaker affirms once more---“But trepidation of the spheres / Though greater far, is innocent.”
While separated lovers of a weaker sense-based love feel these “harms and fears,” the separation of true lovers is akin to “trepidation of the spheres”: though greater far in significance, it’s a just nigh-imperceptible trembling to us.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trepidation_(astronomy), by the way.)
“Separation tears other lesser lovers apart like floods and earthquakes do, but our separation will move entire celestial bodies---to no resulting harm at all.”
Personally, I think that that’s one heck of a metaphor.
The speaker also uses some rather skillful wordplay to play with this theme of “our true love vs. their superficial love,” shortly after that.
“Dull sublunary lovers’ love / (Whose soul is sense) cannot admit / Absence, because it doth remove / Those things which elemented it.”
By this he means that lovers of the senses, as opposed to true lovers of the mind and soul, cannot bear separation because it removes the physical interaction that their love is based on. But if you read these lines with iambic pentameter (which this poem awesomely revels in), then “AB-sence” takes on a whole new meaning of “ab-SENSE.”
The prefix “-ab,” of course, means “away from,” making a pun out of “away from sense” on those sublunary lovers “Whose soul is sense.”
“But we by a love so much refined. . . Care less, eyes, lips, and hands to miss.”
(By the way, “sublunary” glances back at the whole “trepidation of the spheres” thing---floods, tempests and the like are sublunary and merely terrestrial, while trepidation is on a much grander scale, farther than the earth and the moon.)
On top of all that, the neat choices of diction in the poem, such as “laity” for those lovers that cannot survive “ab sense,” make this a thoroughly neat poem.
As a final note, I felt that it was pretty obvious from the simile in the last couple stanzas that neither the speaker nor his beloved are dying: it’s the traveling foot of the compass that returns in the end to “where [it] begun,” back to the fixed foot that “in the center sit.” Not vice-versa.
Before I begin, first off, I just wanted to say that I loved the opening of your post, Alexander. :) Now, onto my post.
Right off the bat, John Donne reveals his theme of separation between lovers. He uses a simile to compare how people react to "virtuous men pass(ing) mildly away" to how the speaker and his lover should act during their farewell (1). It is also a form of visual imagery because you can picture a heroic soldier dying and his men proudly saying goodbye, silently honoring him without tears (at least, that's what I see). For some reason, this stanza reminds me of the movie, 300. I know Mr. Duncan is going to make fun of me for mentioning it, but that's what I pictured when I read that stanza.
In the next stanza, the speaker says they should "...melt and make no noise," (5). I think the use of the word melt is particularly powerful. He might have used another word to describe saying goodbye, but the speaker says melt. This creates a visual image of two lovers in a passionate embrace, "melting" into each other.
The speaker also uses a strong simile to describe how the people with regular, insignificant love (the "laity") deal with goodbyes. Their valedictions are like floods ("tear-floods") and storms ("sigh-tempests"). These kinds of farewells are destructive and the imagery of storms helps the reader visual that destruction.
I also liked the synecdoche used in the fifth stanza. The speaker says that the distance between him and his love will make him miss, "...eyes, lips, and hands," (20). These body parts represent his lover and how physically, the lovers will be apart and not be able to see these parts of their beloved. However, because their love is strong, they don't need these things.
The most powerful image, in my opinion, is in the last three stanzas of the poem. The speaker compares their love to that of a compass. The woman is "the fixed foot," (27). It is the point that doesn't move. The speaker is the one that moves around, making the circle. Because the woman stays where she is, her "...firmness makes my circle just," (34). No matter how far apart the lovers are, the distance between them doesn’t matter because they will always come back together eventually. Not even death can end their love. It's a very powerful declaration of love.
In "A Valediction Forbidding Mourning," I also felt that it was a message from the speaker to his or her lover. Donne explains to his lover that he must depart from her for the time being. However, despite this separation, he consoles her by saying that it will make their love stronger. In this poem, the diction is used to help explain the fact that the separation will not cause anything to change. Donne states, "As virtuous men pass mildly away," giving the connotation that the lover should not weigh the departure too much, but instead be optimistic about what can happen in the future. "To tell the laity our love" also has a certain connotation to in which the lovers are rebelling against a certain practice, through their love. It is as if the laity doubts the lovers, but they believe that the separation will strengthen their love. This poem almost seems like a letter to his lover telling her that though must be apart, "No tear-floods, nor sigh-tempests..." should come. When the speaker states, "Dull sublunary lovers," he is consoling her by saying that their love is "much refined" than those with a dull love between them. (I am not quite sure why Donne chose to use "Care less" instead of careless.) He continues to say that they are one with similar minds, eyes, lips, and hands, and the movements they make are always in sync with one another.
I am so glad Dr. Johnberry pointed out the use of diction. I didn't think it was used in this poem.
I found that this poem has a similar feel to "Funeral Blues" by W.H. Auden, recited famously in Four Weddings and a Funeral. The figurative language and diction set the tone that the person whom the speaker is leaving is someone, possibly even a love, that the speaker cares for implicitly. When the speaker says "as stiff twin compasses are two," the speaker suggests that while they are two seperate people on different journeys, they will always come back to the same place ("He was my North, my South, my East and West," more compass and direction related figurative language).
Another theme the speaker develops is the theme of love that distance can touch. "Dull sublunary lovers' love" implies that the speaker and his lover's love goes beyond this world and elsewhere entirely. "Our two souls therefore, which are one" goes with the figurative language earlier of "so let us melt" so that I see two souls melted together, who love each other beyond the boundaries of this earth.
This is just how I figured it, but...
"But we by a love so much refined,
That ourselves know not what it is,
Inter-assuréd of the mind,
Care less, eyes, lips, and hands to miss."
I think that "Care less" is used instead of "Careless" because "careless" can be construed to indicate heedlessness and negligence, which isn't what the speaker means at all.
He means that he and his beloved should care not even if their eyes, lips, and hands cannot meet---for they are intertwined in mind and soul. They can never truly be apart, despite any physical distance.
This, in contrast to the "dull" lovers of the fourth stanza.
They're not really being careless in assuming this... are they?
I hope not. For their sake.
If you haven’t already noticed, I like to break my poems down stanza/chunk by stanza/chunk. I will be doing the same for Donne’s “A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning.” To me is seems like this poem is a lot less about death, and much more about love. Donne uses the idea of death to explain the difference between love and lust. Death is not the main, central idea of the poem, love is. At first I thought that it was about death, the first stanza is all about “virtuous men” passing “mildly away” and how some people are content and okay with death while others deny that it is or ahs happened. But it is interesting that Donne compares in the very next stanza how it is that that sort of relates to the speaker’s love of his significant other (let us for now assume it is a wife). So the speaker is writing to his wife, speaking about how beautiful their love is and how it is not like the “dull sublunary lovers’ love” but that “we, by a love so much refined That ourselves know not what it is.” They have true love, a love that requires no mourning. In fact I think that the speaker doesn’t want mourning, he is “forbidding” it because that would be an admission that their love is not real love but a superficial love. This is a beautifully written poem about true love and it was fantastic!
Prepare for my thorough insight of this poem. While you guys are preparing, I will do the same and prepare for my thorough insight to come along as well. I just need to write it out..
Hmm, deja vu.
First stanza: the diction is very soft and mild, almost inviting. It has a heroic spin to it, which adds a bit of irony: "virtuous men pass mildly away". I always expect virtuous men to die engaged in some heroic deed such as slaying a dragon or saving the world from certain destruction. "The breath goes now" is also relatively passive. Why would anyone use such passive language when they could say "The breath is knocked out by a massive swipe of a vicious dragon's tail"? I predict that the first stanza is setting up a soft organic image which will be either contrasted or compared with about 2/3 of the way in the poem.
Second stanza: "let us melt, and make no noise" further pushes the idea of a mellow image. (You know what makes things melt? Dragon fire.) It seems to take a step, however, in a more powerful direction with the addition of more dramatic terms such as "tear-floods" (tears are normally thought as streams, not floods) and "sigh-tempests". Looking ahead at the third stanza, this is expanded upon with the speaker explaining that "Moving of th' earth brings harms and fears". I am going to go ahead and interpret this as the moving of the earth caused by tears and sighs brings about fears. I've found that this is often the case in real-life examples.
Fourth stanza: the diction is very fancy and yet oxymoronic. "Dull sublunary" love. Love that is sublunary is hardly recognized as dull love. (Unless it is the love of a knight shining his dull shield underneath the moonlight sky, preparing to fight a dragon.) The soul of their love is the sensee, and it can't admit absence because it remove things which created the love in the first place. It's cyclical reasoning, but hey, love doesn't make much sense. (Kind of like how fighting a giant dragon doesn't make sense.) The diction is fancy, one may say it's romantic, even. It does add an ambience of organic imagery which seems to have a greater influence than other imagery because of it's innate emotion of love.
Fifth stanza: very tactile and visual passage. Not much else to say. It does cause some confusion to say that this very love, we do not know what it is.
Sixth stanza: It might be the trance I'm listening to, or maybe the powerful biological imagery, or a combination of the two, but this stanza speaks pretty strongly. "Like gold to airy thinness beat." The diction is again, like the fourth stanza, relatively fancy and emotion-inducing. It relates to the title -- the speaker is an optimist, viewing his or her leave as an expansion instead of a breach.
Seventh stanza: great analogy with a compass. Also repetitive use of "two". The needle, it stays constant, unless the compass itself moves, in which case, the needle will move accordingly. I liked that. (An analogy with dragons, and how they always pretend to be one step behind, but actually they are two steps ahead, would have been better. Everything goes better with dragons.)
Eighth stanza: an expansion upon the compass analogy. The diction is at the bare minimum to describe what there is to describe. Nothing flamboyant or out of proportion. (Although I do believe that dragons are in order. Man, I've been reading too many of those dragon stories.) The mood has changed dramatically from the first couple of stanzas. The dramatic tempest-sighs and flood-tears have been transformed into the love of two soul-mates who have inseparable spirits.
Final stanza: the one foot runs oblique to the other -- the two lovers. The firmness of the first step makes the second step certain that it's doing the right procedure, and the ending is right at the beginning again. Thus one shouldn't mourn, because if you can run make circles with one foot, you'll know that you can run. Or rather, in a way that makes more sense: as long as you're sure of others, you can be sure of yourself, and thus shouldn't mourn for leaving, because you'll eventually end up at the start point.
In the second stanza, the speaker uses the word 'melt' and phrases ("make no noise", "No tear-floods") to help describe how the farewell should be. Since melt happens without a great deal of intense action, it creates a fitting prototype for adding extra description. With ample information, the speaker is clearly conveying to not make any commotion or scene of his departure but instead to let it happen gracefully (like butter melting) and calmly.
I found it interesting after rereading the poem how it was written 'Care less' and not careless but could not find any connections.
Also, the whole poem demonstrates the durability of love (or at least how the speaker feels of his love). He uses references such as the compass and movement (or lack of) of the foot to express how their souls will remain 'connected' no matter where one goes.
In addition, the speaker mentions how love is something that is intangible ("That ourselves know not what it is, Inter-assured of the mind").
Urghh. I don't like writing too much (plus I can write a lot more in the essay). :) So I'll stop now.
This poem is about the seperation of two people who mutually love each other. I feel like the author is trying to say that this departing should be taken gracefully and not dwelled on. The author uses figurative language effectively convey his message. For example in the first stanza the virtuous men pass away mildly. He is talking about their seperation as one that is natural and must be treated as the graceful death of a great man.
Also in the 2nd stanza, he mentions to "let us melt, and make no noise". He asks that their seperation not be tear flooded and that is should be taken calmly like the way ice melts. He believes this way they can also show their true love.
Those are of course only some of the examples of figurative language in the poem. He uses to to assert that their seperation does not need to tear filled. He believes that their love is so strong that there do not need to be tears on their seperation. He feels like their love will keep the connected forever.
In “A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning”, the speaker talks about being separated from his lover. Whether by death or by a journey is not completely clear, though I believe it to be due to his having to go away for awhile. He tells her not to mourn his absence, since it will do no good, he will be back and that is all that matters. The depth of their love for one another is made clear by the powerful metaphors used to describe it. The most powerful one being that of the compass. That although ‘when the other far doth roam’, (30) the other ‘leans, and hearkens after it’ (31). No matter where one is, the other desires nothing more than to be with them. But the speaker tells his other half that she must stay and be the center which holds it all together. He’ll be back, and they can start from where they had left off. When the speaker says, ‘Thy firmness makes my circle just’, (35) he’s saying how he depends upon her and how she is what makes his journey worthwhile.
The diction used by the speaker to describe their love is also powerful. Although there will be ‘a breach’, but only in their being separated, it will only ‘expand’ their love for one another. Such as that of gold being stretched (24). Also, in line 31, one does not just desire to go with the other but they ‘hearken after it’, giving a stronger sense and meaning to what is being said.
(Again, I had to post this blog this morning here at school because my computer was being stupid and wouldn’t let me post it at home).
The problem with your analysis, Mr. Cornea, is that it falls apart if the dragon in question is a Chinese dragon. Your warlike diction (there's that word again!) is entirely inapt and is liable to bring evil fortune upon us all. Look at what's happened to me already!
By the way: the word of the day today is "toady." Isn't that great word? Maybe it will enlighten those of you analyzing "Toads" by providing yet another meaning of that evocative word we no longer confine to amphibious creatures that are known to spread warts!
I heard that, of the two groups that presented this morning, one was fantastic and the other "pathetic". Come on -- no one in our class should be pathetic! Don't disgrace me in my hour of need, when I must have something to believe in.
Okay, so I'll admit that this is probably the worst time to confess that I'm struggling a bit with the essay that just so happens to be due tomorrow.
In desperate hopes that someone from our class, between now and when I come back to my sickly first draft about an hour from this moment, will log on, read through this blog, scroll down and ready my post all the way at the bottom, I have the following message to relay: HELP!
I'm having a lot of trouble narrowing down the figurative language I want to talk about. I loved the compass bit, so I plan on including it, but this poem is just jam-packed with goodies to choose from and I'm not sure quite how to make my selection.
How many points are the rest of you covering? What are your theses thus far? I can't really pick mine until I select what I'd like to prove.
I don't think I've ever written about poetry in my life. As per usual, the task seems daunting and I was hoping someone could lend me a hand!
(note to Kenzie) : I think you should focus your essay on metaphors if you want to discuss the compass. Haha, you probably already knew that, but probably just go in depth of the compass and the circle and how it involves the rest of the poem. Focus more on the diction of how the compass is depicted, like “obliquely”, “erect”, “fixed”. I hope that helps :]
I thought “A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning” is a very sweet but morbid poem which then gives a feeling of not eerie, but almost like a floating feeling. Not floating, it’s a good feeling. So eerie, but good eerie. But after we had that discussion in class with Ms. Minor, it made so much more sense that this poem has two messages, that it can be of friends parting one another or two lovers that are made for each other and should never be pulled away. It also seems to me as if the speaker is passing on into another world, but I may be wrong.
In the first stanzas this is where I get the image that it’s people dying. The writer mentions the soul, and how the breath comes and goes. I don’t think a person that is moving onto another place (physical place, not spiritual) would use that type of diction to describe their movements. The first and second stanza seem to relate with each other as well, “No tear-floods, nor sigh-tempests move”. I mean, I would cry and probably be really depressed if I am moving from all of my friends and family and the place that I’ve lived all my life, but using tears as floods and sighs as tempests gives a larger effect than just someone moving. It shows real sorrow, that there is no chance of ever returning. When Ms. Minor described these two stanzas, she mentioned the term “virtuous men” and how these two stanzas mean that when virtuous men, men who have no sins and has a fine reputation, when they move on no one is going to go hysterical. They will respect the man’s life and death, and let whoever it was die (or leave) peacefully. In the second stanza, I was confused about the “profanation of our joys / To tell the laity of our love” Until we had the discussion in class. At first I thought that because the word “laity” is a homophone of “lady” that the virtuous man had done a blasphemous action to get to his lady and show her his love, something like that because I couldn’t connect it with the rest of the stanza. But I was wrong, and if we put it into the context of the stanza, it would be blasphemous to become glum before the event occurs.
In the third stanza, “Moving of th’ earth brings harms and fears” represents an earthquake, and people fear this more than the “trepidations” that they put on one another. Basically, this stanza is saying how people are more scared of the physical changes and worry less of the emotional changes when that is what makes true love. In the fourth stanza, “dull sublunary lovers’ love” the use of the word dull and sublunary depicts how physical beauty is boring. When a couple only likes each other for their physical beauty and not for who they are, once one of them leaves for a period of time, absence does not make the heart grow fonder and it becomes out of sight, out of mind. They don’t cherish what they have because all they see is the outside, and they don’t know what they have. “They” are the couples by the way. The word element is the physical beauty, the eyes and ears and nose and stuff of that sort.
Stanzas five and six tie in with stanzas three and four, that lovers do not care about the physical beauty. The reason for the writer separating the words “care less” of the eyes, lips, and hands. Ms. Minor mentioned the word “refined” and it usually conjures an image of gold, or something of the precious metals sort. The end of the sixth stanza “A breach, but an expansion, / Like gold to airy thinness beat” is referring to the heart. If love is true and from the soul, it will not be like gold and materialistic because if it is, there would be no heart beating.
The final three stanzas of the compass I think is the most beautiful thing ever. I did not understand it at first because I was concentrating on the rose compass and I totally forgot about the geometric compass. When Ms. Minor had brought the compass in to give a little demonstration of what the author was trying to say, it made so much sense. It made me feel all so warm and fuzzy inside. If two lovers are true to one another, they are a compass. This metaphor makes complete sense, because if one of the legs (one of the couple) moves, the other will move as well. They mock.. Well, not mock, because that gives a bad picture, but imitate the way the other moves so that they can move alongside with each other. They work together to make a circle. I thought that was very sweet.
I’m sorry for my delay in response to this blog, but it did help a lot hearing the class discuss it and Ms. Minor clarifying it.
Thanks for the tips. Anything helps at this stage in writing. =D
And I can see where, in the first stanza, you would obviously get the impression of death. Although, I think there is a distinct reason that Donne began this stanza with the word "as". He wanted to make clear that it would only seem like death, but the language later in the poem suggests a long journey.
The imagery of the twin compasses, in fact, used in map reading and travel, suggests a journey, especially in light of "thy soul" being described as "the fixed foot". This suggests that, instead of the audience joining the speaker in some kind of after life, the speaker, in fact, will bring himself back around to the fixed foot once his journey has taken its course.
The ending of the eighth stanza is the word "home", which certainly confirms this concept for me.
This poem was an incredibly daunting task at first, but it seems so much more conquerable after Ms. Minor came in and presented her interpretation and after spilling out a bunch of willy nilly thoughts on this blog.
Good luck to everyone and I look forward to further discussion in class.
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