1. For class on Thursday: We will focus on the theories debated in the novel. Review the discussion between Porfiry and Raskolnikov about Rodya’s article (Part 3, ch. 5, 258-265 in Pevear/Volkonsky) as well as the conversation between Lebeziatnikov & Luzhin (Part 5, ch. 1, 363-371 P/V) and Raskolnikov's interior dialogue (near the end of part three, ch. 6, right before his dream about the old crone, 274-275 P/V). Come to class with notes and passages marked.
2. Prompt: From the murders forward, Raskolnikov spins a web in which he is himself trapped. And he is, in his more lucid moments, well aware of the trap: he even says that he "turned spiteful . . . Then I hid in my corner like a spider."
Yet of all the characters, Porfiry is the one who seems most "spiderlike" as he skillfully maneuvers Raskolnikov during their encounters. Nevertheless, Porfiry also has keen insight into Raskolnikov. When he finally confronts the young man in part six, chapter 2, Porfiry tells Rodya: "Do you know how I regard you? I regard you as one of those men who could have their guts cut out, and would stand and look at his torturers with a smile -- provided he's found faith, or God"
Discuss what Porfiry means by these words. Notice that he does not say "faith in God", but "faith, or God" (part 6, ch. 2, 3 pages from the end of the chapter, 460 in P/V).
37 comments:
This seems like it will be a pretty straight-forward blog. I feel like there are a lot of things that Porfiry could mean by this. The first thought that came to my head is that Porfiry sees Raskolnikov as someone who, after finding faith or God, would not fear death, and might even welcome it because of the belief in the afterlife. Or maybe rather than death, just being unafraid and even embracing of justice aptly served. But I'm not sure how much sense that makes; Raskolnikov spends the entire book eluding justice, or at least unsure of whether justice is needed or not.
The second thing I was thinking about was the faith or God bit. I actually don't think it's too confusing; if someone has found God, they must have faith in Him, but faith does not necessarily have to be in God. People can have faith in many different things: honesty, justice, love, good, change, time, etc. Faith in anything would be a cause for smiling in the face of death. The hard part is figuring out just why that faith would cause that smile. Later though, Raskolnikov says, "I haven't any faith..." and even repeats it in his next line.
So is Porfiry wrong in his analysis/impression of Raskolnikov? I don't know. Maybe? He has Sonya, and he has God, but I don't think he really knows he has those things until after he is in prison. In fact, I don't even know if I'm on the right track at all on the whole meaning of "faith, or God." It might have nothing at all to do with embracing justice or accepting punishment. Could it be as simple as, he sees Raskolnikov as someone who, once he has some faith, he is fully convicted to it so as to greet adversity, even the spilling of his own innards, with confidence and resolve? Haha, yeah. Too many "what about this?" questions and not enough answers for me. I think I'll be off to enjoy the rest of my school-less Wednesday.
I was having a particularly hard time with this one, so hopefully my analysis is not completely wrong, and I’m sorry if it is.
Anyway, for the “God” part of what Porfiry said, I think that you can look at what Porfiry a few lines earlier, “This may be God’s means for bringing you to Him” (p. 454 in the Garnett version). Therefore what I took it to mean is that, if one were to believe that this (the removing of entrails) was God’s way of bringing one closer to him, as in death, then one would be able to look at one’s torturers with a smile because this is in some way their destiny, perhaps. And this is how it was meant to be; therefore one would not have fear, but joy. Things are calmer if they a predetermined or predestined to happen, because nobody has to worry about doing anything. This is maybe slightly similar to Raskolnikov’s theory of extraordinary people, that it was sort of like their destiny to do what they are supposed to do and they do not question it, which is like looking at your torturers with a smile, you not questioning the situation or anything else.
As for the “faith” part and separating that from God, I was really confused, and I need some help with that idea. I know that faith can be many things that have nothing to do with God, but I feel that “faith” in this sense is something a bit deeper and more complex than just regular old faith.
I think that Porfiry says this to Rodya beacuse he knows the smile is not legitimate: it is a false one, caused by the false security of his web, just like when confronted, a spider crawls to the back corners of the web, beleiving it is safe (a small swat at the web will bring the spider tumbling down). I think that Porfiry is maing a clever little implied note that Rodya could smile in the face of his torturers, because of his false web. Taking note of this, I would assume that the reason "faith, or God" was said instead of "in God" is because, as was discussed in class in previous weeks, the murders are ultimate sins, something which would be quite countertheistic. The murder, in conjuction with the web spun by Rodya, are the opposite of finding a god. More clearly: Porfiry is subtly playing with Rodya, telling him that he believes he could smile at his torturers if he could but find god, but he can't because his faith lies in his weak web of lies.
I like this prompt.
First off, Porfiry clearly has a sense that Rodya is the murder. This may be due to Porfiry's knowledge of Rodya's article (which is noted in Part 3 Chapter 5) which states his interesting theory behind the mind of a criminal. In addition, Rodya's physical symptoms, his sickness and fainting, can also be interpreted as clues.
(Matt already explained that you can have faith in ideas/people other than God, which I agree with)
Porfiry is saying that Romanovitch could withstand his current conditions (which include his sickness, fainting and depressed state) if he a) had faith (most likely in his theory) or b) believed in God. Thus, Romanovitch may have doubt in his theory that it is not justifiable to murder.
To understand the quote I read further ahead in the passage. Porfiry explains to Raskolnikov the character of the murderer and his motives.
"He forgot to shut the door after him, and murdered two people for a theory...he is a murderer, but looks upon himself as an honest man, depises others, poses as an injured innocent. No, that is not the work of a Nikolia, my dear Rodian Romanovich!" (433)
Raskolnikov still looks upon himself as an innocent. He cannot confess because he cannot admit to himself that he is a murderer. He knows he is a murderer but his sickened by the shame of it, and refutes the idea. He adheres to his theory because if it falls through, he is nothing but a murderer. I believe it is this strong and unalterably cling that Porfiry is referring to when he says that Raskolnikov would
"stand and look at his torturers with a smile-- provided he's found faith, or God". God is separate from faith here because faith means only strong conviction in something. Raskolnikov had this sort of martyrdom faith in his theory, he killed to women, then he smiled at Porfiry, his 'torturer' as he relates his crime to him, compared to the men having "their guts cut out". He smiles instead of confessing and ending his torture because he cannot deny his theory- he has 'faith' in it. If it is wrong than he is nothing that he deemed himself to be, something greater than a 'louse' and this thought, although it reoccurs to him many times, it is so repulsive that he dejects it from his mind as being impossible.
"You’ve lost faith and you think that I am grossly flattering you; but how long has your life been? How much do you understand? You made up a theory and then were ashamed that it broke down and turned out to be not at all original! It turned out something base, that’s true, but you are not hopelessly base. By no means so base! At least you didn’t deceive yourself for long, you went straight to the furthest point at one bound" (437)
This quote preceding, the one in the prompt, state that Raskolnikov has 'lost faith'. The faith in his theory- he knows it is wrong, deep down, and Porfiry can see this in how he struggles with himself, trying but unable to hold complete conviction in his believe. But Porfiry admires him because he 'went straight to the furthest point in one bound', he tested is theory to an extreme, and because he did he found it was wrong quickly, his errors leading to the truth, as Razumikhin discussed earlier. Because he doesn't deceive himself he loses faith. This is why Porfiry knows he will confess. But he still holds the capacity to endure great trials for his conviction. He sought the truth with his theory, and had it been correct, would surely have never faltered from his conviction or 'faith' in it. This is why Porfiry says that he is "By no means so base!" Even though his theory is wrong.
Well I was tempted to wait and post my pathetic excuse for an intellectual response until exactly 7:31, just to try and keep Duncan on his toes, excuse me, Mr. Duncan. Then again with whole knee situation we better just keep his feet firmly planted on the ground for now and let the healing process do it's thing. By the way, Mr.Duncan, have you ever played Pickle Ball? It's a cross between tennis and ping pong, if you didn't already know, and wow, it's fun!
Well anyways as for the prompt, I must say I disagree with Matt in that this is not straight forward whatsoever. The whole faith or god thing is confusing as H-E-Double hockey sticks, and could probably be and will probably be interpreted in many different ways by my fellow Advanced Placement Literature students. Regardless, my take is that you can have faith in anything, including god. I think finding god is a little different then having faith in god. You might find god, but maybe you don’t have faith in him, I don’t think “finding” god literally means you have faith in him, probably closer to you believe in him, but is that the same thing? Opps I keep saying him, what I really mean is him/her I’m just to lazy to go back and write it in. Anyways, when Porfiry is telling Rodya how he regards him he says, “..as one of those guys” As if there’s many people who would smile as their guts are cut out of them? Hahah, I know, right? Seriously if that was me, I’d be, I don’t know, attempting to slither around like a snake clutching my stomach while continually screaming in agony maybe? If you’re able to just smile at your torturers like that, you must have some prettttttty strong faith in whatever you believe in, whether it be god.
This is completely off topic but I’d like to dedicate my post to the movie Seven Pounds, watched that the other day, pretty good, yeah.
Scott I just want to compliment you on yet another masterful post. However, I feel that I must point out my use of the word "seems." This is a pivotal word in that I am saying the blog appears to be simple, asking us merely to "discuss what is meant." However, the statement in question is quite elusive in it's meaning. Hence, "seems."
I would like to add something that I just now realized as I was reading some of my old notes from a while ago.
In class we had discussed that Raskolnikov’s excuse was that he was impelled specifically by fate to commit the violent acts that he did. So maybe the “faith” that Porfiry talks about could be Raskolnikov’s faith in fate, after all fate can't happen if you have no faith in it.
I'm going to try to go out on a limb. Porfiry uses the words "faith or God." Or being the operative word here seems to make it a choice, to have one or the other. Faith, while most attribute it to having faith in God, can also be loyalty to an idea. My mom talked with me about this once, how I am very religious, though I don't follow any one religion. I believe the same is implied by Porfiry that perhaps Raskolnikov is motivated by either his ideals, believing that when one is extraordinary gives one certain rights, or that in this one moment he could be a Godly man. This one sentence is surrounded by the confession of the painter and talk of suffering. Does Raskolnikov suffer as his "entrails are cut out" (wording my book uses) for God or with the support of his ideals? Raskolnikov has a strong belief that sometimes these are one in the same, fate (his God) has given him the opportunity to do away with the old woman.
Matt, Ouch! I thought there was a mandatory 'No Flaming' rule here, but it 'seems' I was quite mistaken, hence your hurtful post.
However, Matt, your rebuttle confuses me. First you say that the word 'seems' is describing the blog as a whole, but then later on you say it's actually describing the statement in question, so which is it?
All I'm saying is the blog isn't straight forward, which you say it seems, but it doesn't seem, it just isn't straight forward, HAHA OWNED.
When Porfiry tells Raskolnikov that he regards him as a man who could stand and smile at his torturers as long as he’d found faith or God, he could mean simply that he had something to hold onto- something worth while that made him strong enough to withstand the torture. But in the context of Raskolnikov that doesn’t really make sense, since he was completely lost in the web he had created. Like Matt said, he had Sonia and God, but he didn’t actually figure that out until he went to prison.
Although Porfiry was defiantly right about suspecting Raskolnikov, I don’t believe he was right about faith or God. Raskolnikov was to caught up in his mess to find faith or God. Maybe the reason Porfiry had the impression that Raskolnikov would be able to smile at his torturer is because Raskolnikov did have something to hold onto. All throughout the novel Raskolnikov was determined that there was no way he would ever confess, even when Porfiry finally accused him to his face. Maybe the impression came from that Raskolnikov knew the truth but would never admit to it. He could be tortured to the point where it would kill him (his guts being cut out) but he would just smile at his torturer because he would never tell him what he wanted to know and the truth would die with him- it would be lost forever to the torturer (possibly could be Porfiry since he’s torturing Raskolnikov psychologically and freaking him out).
I agree with Krista. I think that Porfiry means that Raskolnikov is a type of man who does not fear consequences that do not coincide with his belief. As Krista said, Raskolnikov does not feel a sense of guilt or think himself as a murderer as long as he still believes in his theory. Porfiry is trying to say that Raskolnikov is a man who uses his faith as a counter to any pain that might come his way. He states that if Raskolnikov were to have faith in an afterlife or god, Raskolnikov would end up using that faith to shield himself from any physical pain, thus being able to “stand and look at his torturers with a smile” (460). This is why Porfiry says “faith, or god” (460). It is not God that shields Raskolnikov from his pain – it is whatever belief Raskolnikov clings on to.
Building on this, I think that Porfiry also states that Raskolnikov can use the same beliefs to feel justified in his actions (however wrong they may be). Porfiry states that Raskolnikov “would…look… at his torturers with a smile”. Essentially he is stating that Raskolnikov can also feel content in his actions (that would torture the conscience of any other person). Thus Porfiry states that Raskolnikov’s beliefs can both shield him from pain but also give him pleasure.
As for the reason Porfiry is saying all of this, I believe he is trying to get Raskolnikov to realize how he has been clinging to his belief to ward off his guilt. He is trying to tell Raskolnikov that it is OK is pain gets through: “And suffering is a good thing, after all”(460). He states that Raskolnikov needs “a change of air” (460), essentially stating that he has to rethink his theory and look at where it has been taking him. Porfiry essentially trying to “help” Raskolnikov “fear less” in order to get him to confess.
Ha Ha Mr. Duncan! Not only is this response done before class but it is also done before your deadline! Anyway, on to the discussion stuff that you love to make us do.
First off, to point out the obvious, Faith and God are not the same. They are often associated with each other, but they can be adn are two seperate things. If Raskolnikov had true, real faith in his idea that he was an "extraordinary" man like Napoleon, then he could face Porfiry without any of the fear or paranoia that he currently posesses. With God, Raskolnikov would believe that no man could be his real judge, but that God would judge his soul as he sought fit, making any earthly punishments insignificant in Raskolnikov's eyes. However, Raskolnikov has neither, as Porfiry points out. Raskolnikov doesn't have faith in his theory and as such cannot stand up to his torturers.
That's all I have for now
Funny thing today, me and my mom were talking about this entire faith and religion/God issue in the car. What a big coincidence.
So what we were talking about was how a person does not have to believe in God to be good themselves. Because it is up to them to decide, I mean God or any other higher beings could move a person to be better, but that does not mean that the person is better because of them. A person's motive may be to be a saintly person and live under the light, but that is because it is their decision to do it. Did anyone tell them to do that? I don't think the Bible would go out and say "Thanh, go volunteer at a homeless shelter," it may say something that would move me to go volunteer, but what makes me go do something like that is my decision. Where am I going with this? This just shows the difference between God and faith. God is a motivator, but faith is what allows a person to see the good side or the bad side. Faith is not always referring to God, like Matt had said. Faith is believing something without any doubt that it is wrong, like Krista said. God is just an excuse for someone to put the blame on, it's easy to blame something that is not tangible.
So here, "faith or God." Faith does not always have to be something that is good. If a person has faith in themselves, then they do not have to blame themselves for what they did wrong. In Ras's situation, his faith is in himself that he has done nothing wrong (like what Krista said). A strong faith like that would get a person through anything. Apparently that is how you get through a lie detector. If you really, truly believe that something is true, then it will be true in your own mind. With God though, it's always for the good. If an individual is smiling after being tortured, somehow they are seeing the silver lining. God motivates people to be better for themselves. So if Ras sees the good, and heads towards the morally right decision, he has decided to go towards God.
Ohh.. I get it now. haha, I was just rambling on until I understood, and I think I understand now. Faith or God would help a person through hard times. Faith (because it does not have to be always good) is for the person themselves. They have faith in themself, then they can get through anything they want. Faith in faith. But if they have faith in God, they can still get through a hard time, but this is a faith in something that they believe in. Not themselves. I hope that makes sense.
Oohh, I forgot to say that I really liked what Fiona said about faith and fate. That makes a lot of sense too.
When Porfiry confronts Raskolnikov, he tells Rodya: "Do you know how I regard you? I regard you as one of those men who could have their guts cut out, and would stand and look at his torturers with a smile -- provided he's found faith, or God". Porfiry does not believe the painter's confession, and I think this is a way of getting under Raskolnikov's skin, or exposing his torment. Raskolnikov has avoided the law thus far, but it has been torturous-- his guilt has driven him into a terrible state. Yet, he does not confess. He only confesses after he has found faith in an aspect of humanity-- sonya. In rodya's situation, a confession to a crime whose punishment could have been avoided (lack of incriminating evidence) seems to be the real moral victory. Thus, he could face his torturers with a smile after all of the torment. I think Porfiry is trying to encourage Rodya to confess, and is expressing his confidence that rodya will confess once he finds faith in the world, be it god or something else.
I found Fiona's post intetesting-- namely the sentence "So maybe the “faith” that Porfiry talks about could be Raskolnikov’s faith in fate, after all fate can't happen if you have no faith in it."
This reminded me of a play we read this year-- Oedipus. Oedipus had no faith in his fate, and fate followed through quite accurately. But I think that in Crime and Punishment, we have a different kind of fate, as Fiona has touched on.
Is Raskolnikov's sense that he is a great man bound by fate to murder accurate? I believe not, because of his guilt and eventual confession, etc. Thus, his faith, however unfounded, to what he percieves to be his fate, drives his future. Therefore, his future seems dependend not on his fate, but his faith.
Interesting distinction, Fiona.
Scott, if I offended you in any way, please accept my third most humble apologies. But honestly, I don't know how much more straightforward "Discuss what Porfiry means by these words," can seem. It's a single sentence for goodness' sake! How much simpler can it be? Seven words, ten syllables, 35 letters, 42 characters if you count punctuation and spaces. Granted, there are two capitalized words, but still, you have to admit is seems to be very straightforward. It's a simple command: discuss. However, the actual topic of discussion is pretty deep. So what appeared to be easy turns out not to be. Seems.
Oh, and, just so this post is pertinent in some way to the actual blog, I liked what Mr. Cornea had to say about having faith in his (Raskolnikov's) own web of deceit. I'm not so sure what he was getting at too much with the opposites talk, but I sure am glad he enjoyed this prompt!
Right before Porfiry says the "faith or God" line, they are talking about Raskolnikov going to jail and that his sentence will probably be shortened. Porfiry tells him that he can probably get his sentence shortened for him and Raskolnikov says he doesn't care about his sentences being shortened. Porfiry takes this to mean that Raskolnikov doesn't care about life and doesn't care about returning to it after his sentence. Porfiry then goes on to tell Raskolnikov that just because Raskolnikov's theory didn't work, doesn't mean that life is pointless and completely different from what Raskolnikov thought. He tells him that he is young and that his sentence will be a breath of fresh air so that he can clear his head and re-collect his thoughts about life. SO I think that Porfiry's "faith or God" bit means that he doesn't care what Raskolnikov needs to believe in in order to be content with living, he just needs to find something whether its God or some other kind of faith.
Well my internet has been down the whole day, and had to get a new router. Finally got connection at 7 today, so this is probably going to be a half baked post.
Well we know Porfiry knows that Raskolnikov did the crime. This line I think is another way for Porfiry to get to Raskolnikov. This seems like a hobby of Porfiry's. Anyways, I think Porfiry deems Raskolnikov as a strong willed person, who has these hair brained ideas that will create no sense of guilt in him. These hair brained ideas are obviosuly the ones that he published about superior beings should be allowed to kill etc. Porfiry knows about this writing, and feels that Raskolnikov uses these ideas for justification of the murder of the landlady.
I would just like to say that I was attacked by tiny green bugs on my hurried way home from work to write this response. Anyways, I like this prompt, but I also don't really know what to think of it.
My first thoughts were how can you separate faith from God? It seems like Porfiry thinks that they are different things, or maybe he is just saying that you can have faith in something other than God, fate for example, like Fiona said. When Porfiry says that Raskolnikov would be the type of person to smile at his torturer I think he is refering to the article that he previously wrote and that Raskolnikov thinks that he knows better than other people. By "faith" I think he could mean faith in that 'right' or nobility that Raskolnikov thinks he has. I hope all that makes sense, I was kind of rushed because of the attack of the green things.
I just woke up from a nap and completely missed the 730 deadline! Just to post something up by then, my interpretation of the "faith" Porfiry was talking about is absolute faith in oneself and one's ideas. Raskolnikov does not have unwavering faith in the idea that compelled him to murder the pawnbroker. Thus, when trapped in the spider's web, he wavers. He would not be able to smile at his torturers.
As I start to write this it is 7:28pm...Sorry JD!!
A few people before me have the same idea about the "faith, or God" quote, that it means that a person could have faith, but it doesn't have to be in God. A person could have faith in many things not just in a higher power. In Rodya's case, he could have faith in his ideas about murder or in his relationships with his family or Sonya. I guess this is kind of a generic answer but I don't really have anymore ideas than that.. I don't exactly know what Raskolnikov could have faith in other than what he finds in his relationship with Sonya towards the end of the novel.
Also, I think that Raskolnikov did spin a web in his mind through his confusion in reasons why he committed the crime and also through his fears of people finding out that he did it. Though, I do beleive that Porfiry is also spider-like because he backs Raskolnikov into a corner like a spider does it's prey and almost gets him to confess.
Okay, I'm about ten minutes late. Please don't take off points! I did start before 7:30! :)
Touche' Matt. I recognize when I have been defeated, and this time you got me. I will send you a written apology in the mail, just standard mail sorry I can't afford first class, and of course, a basket woven by the hands of yours truly stuffed to the brim of a delicious assortment of meats.
Okay so I know i'm a little late, but in my defense I've been gone all day and haven't had a chance to check the blog. Sorry JD.
In my personal interpretation of this passage Porfiry is implying that Raskolnikov requires a certain amount of faith in something, such as a cause or a person, or God ( which I would assume would count as something to have faith in) and that with the foundation of his faith he could do anything. That he would sacrifice himself gladly, hence the smile described, for the cause. Someone who merely needs and cause and stability, something to ground him, and with that out of the way can withstand anything, nothing else matters.
For Raskolnikov I think this turns out to be his belief in himself as an extraordinary man. He believes it so fervently that he is willing to severe his relationship with all the people he loves as well as endure the guilt and the suffering that folllow the murder.
I should also point out that despite Porfiry's efforts to convict and trap Rodia into confessing, this statement shows his rather high esteem for Rodia. The idea of smiling while being tortured is only given to those who are exceptionally strong. James Bond or Jason Bourne for example. I think it represents a tremendous amount of respect and admiration for Raskolnikov, something that Razumikhin also comes to develop despite the murder.
"Do you know how I regard you? I regard you as one of those men who could have their guts cut out, and would stand and look at his torturers with a smile -- provided he's found faith, or God"
This is a very apt remark from Porfiry to Raskolnikov given that throughout their confrontation, Raskolnikov, who as lost faith and God, has not been able to keep calm and smile at his torturer-for Porfiry’s verbal game is a torture to Raskolnikov. Confronted with Porfiry’s spot on interpretation of the emotions and motives behind the murders, “…Raskolnikov shuddered as though he had been stabbed” (433). When Porfiry finally utters with conviction his belief that Raskolnikov is indeed guilty, Raskolnikov “…leapt from the sofa…[and] his face twitched convulsively. “ ‘It was not me who murdered her,’ Raskolnikov whispered like a frightened child caught in the act.” In his conversations with Porfiry, Raskolnikov has never been able to keep a straight and calm face, his intense emotions and sporadic twitching have revealed an internal nervous disposition.
Now, as to the phrasing of the comment, I believe Porfiry says “faith or God” because, as everyone before have stated, faith and God are not the same things. Faith can be any unwavering and resolute belief in any idea or self, it doesn’t necessarily have to be interpreted in a religious sense of the word. As I’ve talked about in my previous post, I believe the faith Porfiry alludes to is Raskolnikov’s faith in his idea of the superman. If Raskolnikov had absolute and strict faith in this idea, he would be able to calmly deal with his aggressors. Unfortunately, Raskolnikov ultimately realized that his theory “…turned out to be something base” (436). Now, what I find most interesting is the inclusion of the phrase “or God”. Normally, just the word faith would be enough as it is all inclusive. Yet, Porfiry highlights a religious faith. This could have been an allusion to Raskolnikov’s previous belief in God when he was much younger, as evidenced in the dream of the horse. Or, it could be a reference to the religious faith he ultimately gains while spending years in hard labor in Siberia. Either way, a belief in God is a crucial theme of this novel. Dostoevsky obviously placed much emphasis on religious faith, as evidenced in the character of Sonia. He felt that it was the most powerful kind of faith, one with which, if someone possessed it, they could smile at their torturers as their entails were pulled out.
PS: I had a dream recently where Mr. Duncan stated that he wanted our blog posts to be short and succinct. I was pretty horrified at the idea of editing and shortening my posts.
Matt, to clarify my "opposites talk", I was trying to say that smiling because of faith and smiling because of God are opposites in Rodya's case. His faith is in something that goes against the gods.
Aw, sorry, Mr. Duncan! I didn't mean to be late. I was out of my house all day today. I went to the career fair and then I was at dance and couldn't check till I came home from my dance classes. Sorry! I feel like such a failure.
As for this blog, it is rather interesting that he says faith or God. This suggests that he means faith in something else, perhaps in one's self or what they believe. The reason Raskolnikolv gets in this mess to begin with is because he's testing his "theory" of overstepping boundaries. Because of that, I think Porfiry is saying that if Rodia believes suffering goes along with believing in his "theory", he will calmly accept it.
In addition, Rodia has lost his faith in God. Someone who is highly religious, like Sonya is, would never kill someone, especially one so innocent as Lizaveta. But Raskolnikolv kills both women. He cannot really have faith in God at this point. However, Sonya helps him on the path back to his faith by helping him realize he needs to suffer for the crimes he committed.
These are all the thoughts I can give because I want to get this is so it's not as late. Again, I'm really really sorry for my lateness.
Yikes, sorry, I didn't check the blog till nine pm. Here is my blog post anyways.
In the quote Porfiry is talking about his Raskolnikov’s personality and beliefs. He knows Raskolnikov is the type of man who would do anything and risk everything for an idea, if he is passionate enough about it. Raskolnikov has such strong beliefs in an idea that he could die for it without feeling an ounce of pain or regret. He does not fear death, but rather injustice. Both him and Dunia aren’t afraid to sacrifice themselves. However, the former would do it for a cause, while the latter would do it for family and more intimate reasons. Porfiry knows about Raskolnikov’s strengthened belief in his theory and regards him with both contempt and admiration for the passion he has for it.
When he says “faith, or God” I believe Porfiry is saying that for Raskolnikov, his faith he his theory or any type of strong cause is analogous to the devotion a devout religious person would have. A martyr of some twisted way, Raskolnikov embodies with his ideas. He could die for his theory and not feel regret if he feels strongly enough for it. As for the spider idea, Porfiry is more like a spider in the way he can twist and tangle with Raskolnikov's mind and his web of lies. Raskolnikov cannot keep up with Porfiry in that degree, because he is already weakened and plagued with fear.
Towards the end of the book, Raskolnikov begins to know himself that he is a murderer, despite what he wants to think himself as. However, when Porfiry eventually confronts Raskolnikov of knowing that he is the murderer, Rodya cannot bring himself into admitting that he is the murderer despite the offer of a shortened sentence, for this would cause himself to give into his idea that he cannot be effected by common human emotions. When Porfiry tells Rodya, "Do you know how I regard you? I regard you as one of those men who could have their guts cut out, and would stand and look at his torturers with a smile -- provided he's found faith, or God," the torturer is referenced as Porfiry and Raskolnikov smiles at the torturer because he stands next to his faith in his theory that he is "above" normal humans. By "stand[ing] and look[ing] at his torturers with a smile," Raskolnikov would not feel any form of guilt because his theory would continue to hold steady.
By the way, sorry for posting the blog so late JD.
Whoopsie daisies! I though I would be early after seeing the post on Monday before the deadline posting.
Alright. Raskolnikov does indeed weave a web that he traps himself in. Porfiry I believe sees that Raskolnikov is indeed hiding something and has trapped himself on numerous occasions. I see it more as Raskolnikov is the fly that has landed in the web, and every move to free himself just barely keeps the spider at bay, while Porfiry moves in for the kill. Porfiry has the best understanding of a criminal amongst our characters, and he manipulates Raskolnikov because Rodya is quickly swallowed up by this crime he has committed.
The quote about Rodya's faith I think is meant to say that believe in God isn't the only way people face death. People can accept dying for a cause they believe in, their faith in what has happened. Rodya is such a man. He believes God will forgive him. He also has faith in the purpose of his death, whatever that will be.
(Sorry for posting this so late, Mr. Duncan! I feel terrible about it since I really could've checked the blog much earlier than I did but I didn't. I'll know better next time, you can be sure of it.)
I wholeheartedly agree with Porfiry's analysis of Raskolnikov. I find him to be someone of great conviction, someone who takes strength from his own ideas and does not easily relinquish them. It is that aspect of his character that I find to be most admirable, and I believe it is that same aspect that Porfiry sought to identify in his statement. I don't believe that he would have any reason to laugh at his hypothetical torturers if he knew they would succeed at depriving him of his spirit, and I believe that he knows they shall never succeed because they cannot remove from him his ideas, his convictions. Therein exists the distinction between faith and God that Porfiry briefly addresses, the difference between belief in ideas and belief in a higher power - I believe that Raskolnikov is only religious in the sense of the former, as logic and reason offer him the stability and security that he cannot find in God; he is very much a man of faith, faith in that which is tangible, that which he can prove.
So I been out of the house the majority of today! I've been at a dress rehearsal and just got home! Lo siento! Sorry! Just one more excuse for you to read, Mr. Duncan :).
On to the post...
Jill mentioned in her post that she didn't know how to separate "faith" and "God" at first. It is true that these two words are always used in conjunction. But after breaking my head over it, it looks as though Porfiry says that Rodya has confidence and faith in his thoughts, ideas, and like Hari said "convictions".
Because Rodya had faith and complete confidence in his ideas, he is someone who shouldn't be threatened by opposition, someone who should be able to stand tall and strong against those who try to bring him down, his torturers.
Rodya finds security in his ideas, something very close to him, rather than in God. Rodya abandoned God and morals when he committed the murders, and could easily take refuge in his own covictions for justification.
I would like to add that the excerpt in which Porfiry asks Rodya about his article (I am just now rereading) is related to what I was trying to say, with believing in either one's own faith or in a higher presence. "'Oh, yes, some attain in their own lifetime, and then...' 'Start doing their own punishing?' 'If necessary, and, in fact, almost always.'" (262) Own faith = removing obstacles, being extraordinary, above the law. Faith in other presence = law abiding, etc.
Porfiry is a very observant and cunning police officer. From the moment Raskolnikov collapses in his office during an discussion of the murder, Porfiry considered Raskolnikov a suspect. Porfiry's cleverness is best noted by the fact that he never arrests Raskolnikov, instead, he is certain that Raskolnikov will confess. However, Porfiry doesn't just sit on his hands and wait he tries to get Raskolnikov to confess through spinning a web by using his conniving and clever ways to bait and lure Raskolnikov. Though there were some suprises along the way, like when Mikola confesses, Porfiry's suspicions are proven correct when Raskolnikov finally confesses.
When Porfiry was talking about faith or God, I think he meant that Raskolnikov only needs a reason to be a martyr. Just like Dounia, Raskolnikov is the type of person who will sacrifice himself for a cause or belief.
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